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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      06.05.2012 23:07:49 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
No, please no second knights on KH, too.

If half of the players have two knights, the rest will kind of be forced to maintain a second knight, too, for the good of their nations.

I do not like the idea of having two knights at all, playing with myself - bleagh. With two knights in the same nation, people might end up duelling with themselves - their second knight always and using knight 2 to push up knight 1 - all the fun will be killed.

There is the spying issue, e. g. having one knight in England and one in France, which nation would one actually be loyal to?

And any filling up of the map would be entirely artificial, no real additional players.

No to merging the games, my two (or more) knights are nicely scattered across the various servers already. Putting links in the help, etc. to the English version / German version of the help might be a good idea though. Also it was mentioned that the help (or at least a short summary of the help) might be done in other languages and uplinked.

About the map too large, there were many ideas on AE.de for this, chiefly abolishing costs for additional fields. Probably without the option to appoint additional counts though. Still the nations would be sure to use such an opportunity to spread all over the free fields on the map. The only reason the nations currently limit themselves to small zones around their castles are the high costs of maintaining more fields than knights *3.


 
Last Edit: 2012/05/06 23:10 By Mirabella Lucinda Franca.
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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      06.05.2012 23:45:32 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Bella wrote:
QUOTE:
No, please no second knights on KH, too.

If half of the players have two knights, the rest will kind of be forced to maintain a second knight, too, for the good of their nations.

I do not like the idea of having two knights at all, playing with myself - bleagh. With two knights in the same nation, people might end up duelling with themselves - their second knight always and using knight 2 to push up knight 1 - all the fun will be killed.



I think that there are already pairs like that, but I tend to agree it is less than desirable. We do have a problem however, and that was offered as a possible solution. It could be that the two players of a Knight are not permitted to duel each other.

QUOTE:


There is the spying issue, e. g. having one knight in England and one in France, which nation would one actually be loyal to?



As far as I know the two knight would have to be in the same nation, so the problem does not arise.

Also, we have several players who think it appropriate to plant spies in other nations (some even brag of doing so in the board) so that would not be new problem.

QUOTE:



And any filling up of the map would be entirely artificial, no real additional players.



This---no real additional players---is the heart of the problem in my view.

QUOTE:


No to merging the games, my two (or more) knights are nicely scattered across the various servers already. :) Putting links in the help, etc. to the English version / German version of the help might be a good idea though. Also it was mentioned that the help (or at least a short summary of the help) might be done in other languages and uplinked.



I'm not sure I see logic here, though I agree that a full merger would be extremely risky.

QUOTE:


About the map too large, there were many ideas on AE.de for this, chiefly abolishing costs for additional fields. Probably without the option to appoint additional counts though. Still the nations would be sure to use such an opportunity to spread all over the free fields on the map. :) The only reason the nations currently limit themselves to small zones around their castles are the high costs of maintaining more fields than knights *3.


Well that would achieve the objective of painting the map, which reminds me of an image I made during the Veps issue



And of course a little song:

QUOTE:

Whatcha gunna do wid all dem Veps? all dem Veps up on da Steppes!
Whatcha gunna do wid all dem Swords? all dem Swords in Vepsish Hordes!
Whatcha gunna do wid all dem Shields? all dem Shields in all dem Fields!
Dem Veps, dem Veps! dere playin on da Steppes!


But more seriously, just spreading nations across the map doesn't address the fundamental problem: not enough active, unique players.


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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 09:01:06 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
the fundamental problem: not enough active, unique players.

True, that's the real problem.

So let's not encourage people to make a second knight on the same server.

Make a second knight on one of the other servers instead.

We have
http://knights-honor.com of course in English.

http://ritterheere.de in German.
And right now no empty nation - but it might be a good idea, to establish one nation on RH with a private nation's board entirely in English, where those English players could go who don't speak a word of German. Or else ask which RH nation would be willing to establish at least one English thread in their nation's board, where all the English speakers could communicate amongst themselves. The public board would remain entirely German, but enough Germans speak some English, that communications with the other nations per PM in English should be possible e. g. in order to arrange wars with allies.

http://antique-empire.de in German
Plenty of empty nations to choose from. It would be no problem at all to establish a new nation with an entirely English nation's board, write this into the description of the nation and write this to anyone applying to join the nation - and then to play.

http://antique-empire.com in English - badly in need of new players.

www.sternenheere.de in German - nearly dead, without any admin support for the last 2 years at least, only to be recommended to true game addicts or to those who always wanted to be a king somewhere or who want to try out some new moves, playing methods, functions in the game, someone where they won't do any damage to their main knights.


 
Last Edit: 2012/05/07 09:04 By Mirabella Lucinda Franca.
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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 09:45:56 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Bella wrote:
QUOTE:
Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
the fundamental problem: not enough active, unique players.

True, that's the real problem.

So let's not encourage people to make a second knight on the same server.

Make a second knight on one of the other servers instead.



And so my suggestion a few posts back - perhaps lost in the melee:
a - make a single premium for a player (e.g. on RH) apply to a Knight for that same player on KH as well
b - give players who have a Knight in RH but not KH the one time chance to have their Knight "copied" to KH, with the copy having all stats, equipment, horses, silver, homesite (not sure about fief, might be too hard) of the original. Then they keep playing the original and (it is hoped) start playing the copy as well, but without having to start from nothing.

QUOTE:


We have

http://knights-honor.com of course in English.

http://ritterheere.de in German.
And right now no empty nation - but it might be a good idea, to establish one nation on RH with a private nation's board entirely in English, where those English players could go who don't speak a word of German. Or else ask which RH nation would be willing to establish at least one English thread in their nation's board, where all the English speakers could communicate amongst themselves. The public board would remain entirely German, but enough Germans speak some English, that communications with the other nations per PM in English should be possible e. g. in order to arrange wars with allies.



The obvious candidate would - England. It is relatively small, only about 30 players so less likely to have objections from exisitng players. However, the opposite problem could ensue, England might then grow to 200-300 players and become by far the most powerful nation, even with the high shire count penalties.

(Huh - I see your cunning plot already )

QUOTE:


http://antique-empire.de in German
Plenty of empty nations to choose from. It would be no problem at all to establish a new nation with an entirely English nation's board, write this into the description of the nation and write this to anyone applying to join the nation - and then to play.

http://antique-empire.com in English - badly in need of new players.



About a month back Romans had about 100 Knights and the next largest nation was about 20. There has since been some re-balancing (Romans are smaller, Cilicians are larger), but such a skew can't have helped.

QUOTE:


www.sternenheere.de in German - nearly dead, without any admin support for the last 2 years at least, only to be recommended to true game addicts or to those who always wanted to be a king somewhere or who want to try out some new moves, playing methods, functions in the game, someone where they won't do any damage to their main knights.


I don't think it gets new code. Interestingly, Black Jack was there long after he quit RH, so perhaps that was his testing ground...


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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 10:07:38 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
b - give players who have a Knight in RH but not KH the one time chance to have their Knight "copied" to KH, with the copy having all stats, equipment, horses, silver, homesite (not sure about fief, might be too hard) of the original. Then they keep playing the original and (it is hoped) start playing the copy as well, but without having to start from nothing.

No. That would disadvantage everyone else who has to start from scratch and the complete newcomers to the game too much. All the Germans on KH are of course playing on RH already. We merely need to get some more of the English players onto RH and everyone onto AE.
Simply advertising sufficiently should be a good start to get more of the players onto more of the servers. After 2-3 months you have a knight sufficiently developed to participate in battles in a useful manner.

Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:

The obvious candidate would - England. It is relatively small, only about 30 players so less likely to have objections from exisitng players. However, the opposite problem could ensue, England might then grow to 200-300 players and become by far the most powerful nation, even with the high shire count penalties.

The obvious solution would be to ask the KH kings who speak good English and are playing on RH too, how much they would be willing to do for the KH players emigrating to RH in their RH nation. I know at least 7 KH kings are playing primarily on RH, speak adequate English, but are native German speakers. The RH English king as it happens does not speak much English, but probably has a few players on RH England who do.

I'm a knight in one of the larger RH nations, which does not really have to grow larger, but ok should none of the other players offer themselves as translators, I'm sure we could make an English corner in my RH nation, too.

Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
About a month back Romans had about 100 Knights and the next largest nation was about 20. There has since been some re-balancing (Romans are smaller, Cilicians are larger), but such a skew can't have helped.
OK. KH knights not yet present on AE.com, band together and choose one of the empty castles right in the heart of the map, such as Belgae, Biturgians, Boii, Britons, Illyrians. Smelgar, are you on AE.com? Otherwise you can go and drag the knights of Byzanz along with you to AE.com.

Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
www.sternenheere.de
I don't think it gets new code. Interestingly, Black Jack was there long after he quit RH, so perhaps that was his testing ground...
It does not.


 
Last Edit: 2012/05/07 10:09 By Mirabella Lucinda Franca.
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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 10:33:31 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Bella wrote:
QUOTE:
Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
b - give players who have a Knight in RH but not KH the one time chance to have their Knight "copied" to KH, with the copy having all stats, equipment, horses, silver, homesite (not sure about fief, might be too hard) of the original. Then they keep playing the original and (it is hoped) start playing the copy as well, but without having to start from nothing.

No. That would disadvantage everyone else who has to start from scratch and the complete newcomers to the game too much. All the Germans on KH are of course playing on RH already. We merely need to get some more of the English players onto RH and everyone onto AE. :)
Simply advertising sufficiently should be a good start to get more of the players onto more of the servers. After 2-3 months you have a knight sufficiently developed to participate in battles in a useful manner.


I'm not sure I agree about the disadvantage. Or rather, I think it is only slightly larger than the advantage to second generation premium Knights in the short term and somewhat smaller in the longer term (due to the fief being kept by second generation premium, and not by copied Knights). So I think if one is happy with the second generation premium one should probably be happy with this. Alternatively the copied Knight could appear as age 15 with weapon, horses and silver (but not fief), which is a strict subset of the advantages given to second generation premium...

Unless I've misunderstood, your approach seems to increase the players on RH and AE, but not on KH. All are needed, but I'm focusing on KH. There is a likely market in RH Knights who are not yet on KH, who might start playing KH given the incentives I mentioned.

QUOTE:


Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:

The obvious candidate would be - England. It is relatively small, only about 30 players so less likely to have objections from exisitng players. However, the opposite problem could ensue, England might then grow to 200-300 players and become by far the most powerful nation, even with the high shire count penalties.

The obvious solution would be to ask the KH kings who speak good English and are playing on RH too, how much they would be willing to do for the KH players emigrating to RH in their RH nation. I know at least 7 KH kings are playing primarily on RH, speak adequate English, but are native German speakers. The RH English king as it happens does not speak much English, but probably has a few players on RH England who do.



I mean obvious principally in the sense that that is where would naturally first look for English to be spoken, irrespective of the backgrounds of the nation's principals. It would be unusual if English players were routinely directed to Kazan, for example, rather to England.

QUOTE:


I'm a knight in one of the larger RH nations, which does not really have to grow larger, but ok should none of the other players offer themselves as translators, I'm sure we could make an English corner in my RH nation, too.



Well - if there is the prospect of viable English corners in several of the larger RH nations then that tends to refute Alrik's (aka Jessica's) point about English speakers almost inevitably becoming click players in a wolrd dominated by German speakers. And in turn that implies that a full merge (RH+KH together) is a viable proposition.

QUOTE:


Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
About a month back Romans had about 100 Knights and the next largest nation was about 20. There has since been some re-balancing (Romans are smaller, Cilicians are larger), but such a skew can't have helped.
OK. KH knights not yet present on AE.com, band together and choose one of the empty castles right in the heart of the map, such as Belgae, Biturgians, Boii, Britons, Illyrians. Smelgar, are you on AE.com? Otherwise you can go and drag the knights of Byzanz along with you to AE.com. :)

Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
www.sternenheere.de
I don't think it gets new code. Interestingly, Black Jack was there long after he quit RH, so perhaps that was his testing ground...
It does not.


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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 11:22:07 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Smelgar wrote:
QUOTE:
Well - if there is the prospect of viable English corners in several of the larger RH nations then that tends to refute Alrik's (aka Jessica's) point about English speakers almost inevitably becoming click players in a wolrd dominated by German speakers. And in turn that implies that a full merge (RH+KH together) is a viable proposition.

I think a likely consequence of any attempt to merge RH and KH on one sever, would be that there would be a majority of German players and a minority of English players. The boards would be dominated by German threads. Go count the number of threads on KH versus RH. This would make it difficult to market the game to new English players.

If you love the game and also go play on one of the other servers, where the main language is not your native language is one thing. But playing only on a game, where English players can never be anything but a minority would not be fun for the English players I think.

About getting more players from RH to KH, I told this to Mary Gold already, when she was looking for players for Khazan - which native English speaker is willing to offer themselves as English teachers to German players? If you advertise such a service on RH, you'll be sure to get several takers, we have lots of students on RH, who come to KH to improve their English.


 
Last Edit: 2012/05/07 11:24 By Mirabella Lucinda Franca.
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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 12:24:58 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
First I'd like to answer to Hoern's post:

1. Many shires are already claimed by nations and reconfiguring the map also means remaking our territory's configuration as well. And this means building losses, silver losses, fiefdom losses, etc. There is obviously the option of putting all the lost stuff into the new and enlarged shires, but you'd have allot of work to do...;

2. As far as I know this system is already in place...in a way. You've already stated you allow 2 knights to be played from the same computer, only that the executioner would be seen and the "X" would be visible by the leadership of the kingdom. Simply by allowing for 2 chars to be playable from the same computer (even if the executioner would be visible) you can be sure some players have already taken advantage of it and created another knight.

In my opinion nothing should be done. KH is slowly but surely dying and as far as I'm concerned its slow death has less to do with the game's limitations, but rather with how players play it (EX: Too much peace, mega-alliances, etc)

And if you do try something, than you could change the knight-shire ratio in such a way in which to allow us to claim more shires. That MIGHT create more wars and thus raise activity and motivation to continue playing the game.


Merging the servers would be a good idea, but not implementable simply because the German players in RH would most likely refuse to adapt their writing language. Not to mention that many German players don't even speak English or speak a very bad English. That might result in a negative effect on both types of players: Germans and foreigners alike.

Alrik also mentioned an important impediment: where to put all of us? I suppose you could put us in new factions. New factions could be inserted into the game, but unfortunately their map is already almost entirely conquered, so the question would be where to put those factions?

Plus, I'm not even sure a merging is possible from a technical point of view.

And I've mentioned only a few impediments. So merging the servers is a nice dream at most.

No offense but I've told you over and over again that long peace period and the emergence of mega-alliances will kill this game. And that's exactly what it's happening. One year ago it was less visible, but now it's very visible. And now it's kinda too late to do anything about it. Ironically, in order to fight a mega-alliance even I had to create a sort of smaller mega-alliance. That kinda sucks, but what else was to be done?

So just let the game die out of natural causes because no matter what you do, in the end nothing can compensate for player passivity.
 
Last Edit: 2012/05/07 12:27 By Alar II.
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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 12:54:39 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Just some minds:

To insert another Sub-Forum (even on nations boards) should be only small problem. It deals some work doing it for 53 Nations (plus 53 Nations of the other server, plus 53 Nations of the other server, plus 53 Nations of the other server...).

Another point is the copy idea, in fact I have no idea if it is really working. It sounds better on me to create a new 15-year old basic character for an existing RH/KH player on its clone having about 500 silver and a Fief upgraded including lv2.
No weapons, no horse (should be buyable after what is left from the silver ).

About Prem we have another Problem, it should be possible to call Smelgars son Smelgar too, but if Smelgar is having a daughter?
So it would be needable to get Premium for the one Knight to the other server "by hand" (or is someone willing to pay for both games? Or all four? And how many percent it will be?).

On german server it would be quite easy to find a faction that is lost, the muslims. But do all players from KH want to become a muslim? Certainly not.

About Translation: So Bella, you really want to translate every single RP written in english to german? Lets say Smelgar becomes King on german server, ordering a lot of german players... shall he sent you his orders for his armies you to translate it?

As I already mentioned on you via PM, in my believe many players here are as common with english as germans are (means about none) speaking their own language in internal boards/PMs. How to include them to "normal" communication? Shall all messages be written in four or five languages?


 
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Re:Discussion: more knights or fewer fields?      07.05.2012 13:33:30 --- 1 Year, 11 Months ago  
Jessica vom Greifenstein wrote:
QUOTE:
Just some minds:

To insert another Sub-Forum (even on nations boards) should be only small problem. It deals some work doing it for 53 Nations (plus 53 Nations of the other server, plus 53 Nations of the other server, plus 53 Nations of the other server...).

Another point is the copy idea, in fact I have no idea if it is really working. It sounds better on me to create a new 15-year old basic character for an existing RH/KH player on its clone having about 500 silver and a Fief upgraded including lv2.
No weapons, no horse (should be buyable after what is left from the silver ;)).



I'd be fine with that too - though I suspect the fiefdom might be hard to implement, so I'd suggest a bit more silver or a nag or something.

QUOTE:


About Prem we have another Problem, it should be possible to call Smelgars son Smelgar too, but if Smelgar is having a daughter? :ohmy:
So it would be needable to get Premium for the one Knight to the other server "by hand" (or is someone willing to pay for both games? Or all four? And how many percent it will be?).



I assume the premium is associated with the email address (which can be common across all four games) and not with the user name. For example, when one's heir inherits the username changes but the premium persists... I further assume that it would be possible to allocate premium privileges to several servers simultaneously, and to "copy" the privilege from one server to another.

QUOTE:


On german server it would be quite easy to find a faction that is lost, the muslims. But do all players from KH want to become a muslim? Certainly not.

About Translation: So Bella, you really want to translate every single RP written in english to german? Lets say Smelgar becomes King on german server, ordering a lot of german players... shall he sent you his orders for his armies you to translate it?



Well I think could probably issue orders in German - stuff about denting heads etc - and whilst there would undoubtedly be laughter at my poor German, I'm sure the message would get through after a few mishaps.

QUOTE:


As I already mentioned on you via PM, in my believe many players here are as common with english as germans are (means about none) speaking their own language in internal boards/PMs. How to include them to "normal" communication? Shall all messages be written in four or five languages?


That is an existing problem, though it is possible that it might be made worse.


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