The solution is not moving players around or advertise. The solution is to make the game more attractive for normal knights. Do you think that a Count position it will make them happy? Or more clicks will do?

The solution reside in improving the micro-management of the fiefdoms. People care only about what they owns. Not more buildings, but an improved trade system and an interactive system in affecting the fiefdoms/shires regarding the plagues (natural or wars).

What happen in RL when somewhere is famine? People (inhabitants) start to die. The owner of the field / count of the shire must bring food to prevent the inhabitants shortage.The rest of the nation knights could be involved to help. The people interact. That could be beneficial for RP too.

It must be created the need for the resources. We will have wars for resources, not wars based on "I like you / I don't like you". Losing a province must have a much more importance, as losing the resources stored there.

If the demand of the resources is created, the market will be much more attractive. The prices go up and down based on supply and demand. This is the essence of any market.

I think just about everyone who has considered the issue thinks that an improved trade/economic system would significantly improve the game in various ways, including those James has listed.

To this end, I understand that there are some economic improvements on the way or under discussion in RH.

Micromanagement is generally undesirable (it is usually used as an accusation: someone is a micro-manager if they lack the ability to delegate.) so I'm not quite sure what you meant to say (but not that).

However, just because the trading economic system is a problem does not mean it is the only one. Lack of players, lack of RP are also both problems. RP is certainly possible: consider that of Qualawan as a recent example, but RP wholly from new players is quite rare. Old players can help by involving new players but there's a limit to that too.

I think this sections' purpose is to find a solution.

There are many reasons for which KH is dying and most of these reasons are already known by us. So there's no point in losing time debating them anymore. We should just come with a solution.

The solution I suggest is to let the game die. Hoern might curse me for saying this, but that's its current path anyway. Besides, every game has a life span...

I fear you may be right, but in that case James and I will be the last two players to go down swinging punches: mostly at each other of course but also at anyone who threatens to turn it off...

Alar II wrote:

QUOTE:
There are many reasons for which KH is dying and most of these reasons are already known by us. So there's no point in losing time debating them anymore. We should just come with a solution.

I think the admins need to have a serious look at the game. Consider Renaissance Kingdoms, which is very similar to KH, 1 action per day, buy clothes, build character, duel, fight wars, travel, role-play etc. RK has more than 3,000,000 registered users (not sure how many are active) while KH has 22,000 registered.

I have played RK several times over the years but always lose interest after a few months and let my character die. That hasn't happened with KH, which I find quite addictive. I think KH has great potential, albeit untapped at this time.

I spent much time looking at old threads on optimization board and some really good ideas have been raised there. In particular, one by Smelgar regarding the trade system (exotic goods, trade entrepots, new buildings). Alar has made some astute observations on the diplomacy system, which IMO needs a major overhaul.

To encourage long-term growth and the purchase of premium accounts the admins need to take KH to the next level.

In my opinion the major problem of this game is the fact, that it's not too interesting. The game itself is pretty boring, don't have too much to offer. RP is something, that keeps only people with imagination. Most people lack it and get bored very quickly. So if you want to make the game prosper, you have to do something, to keep non-RP players too. But in current "way" the game is played, I can's see a way to do so.

Qalawan: you are doing well to last a few months in RK: I think I've managed 2 days myself.

RK is far more graphical than KH, which makes it superficially more attractive. KH is mostly a textual game with some graphical elements, and in particular the map. Incidentally, the player of Seighin Cumhaill once told me that the even the map was largely superfluous and that a purely textual game would be as good. That is an extreme view with which I do not agree, but I see the point: KH is apparently unique in the emphasis on free play rather than mechanical activity, at least until lone forget to set a fallback field.

Another idea that was mooted was that of different kinds of characters having different kinds of abilities: clerics, merchants etc as well a Knight: one overall game with several interlocking mini-games. The "Knight" theodossios in my nation has adopted a non-fighting stance as a cleric: no duels or battles. This restricts him purely to RP, but he at least seems to find this adequate so far.

Zawisza Bialy: a technology update would be beneficial I suspect (consider for example the game Lord of Ultima, which appears to be pure AJAX and is highly graphical). PHP based KH is rather 1990's in comparison. Obviously such an update is a lot of work, and the danger is that the essence of KH might be lost.

There are many problems... this is clear.
But if we think of KH as a round-based roleplaygame playing medieval battles (not trade...).... and this what it's meant to be....
....and let us think of it as completed ...
Then we have the problem to get new players to the game.... and this is what we have...
I see that the "best" new players come from other boards..... but this is only because of KH-players who do advertising for us there.
For me it is extremely difficult to get a grip on good advertising on english boards. Mosly because I don't know boards where the right kind of players waits for us.

...and then we need active players who want to play this game and are online to help the new ones.

The game will not change in a big way.... so the players have to like it as it is.
I make updates for all servers every week... and the ToDo-List is never empty.

i know from experience that most serbian players dont Rp because is lack of english,so that is hard and that cant be resolved,for today's youngones who should play any kinds of game this is boring because there is no graphic stuff they like.

as hoern says it is a problem to find place to advertise for special kind of people like we are ,who dont mind graphics.

I think it is terrible for a game no matter what most people like ,that we dont have at least 500-1000 Germans or Brits in the game,French,italians,populations from 30 to 80 milion people and it is hard to find couple hundred to play every day,it is problem of advertise and keep people in game.Some graphic changes will be good and we see that is not possible...money,resources etc.

Another problem is identification with countries.

I know history and geography pretty well,thanks to wide range primary education in ex yugoslavia so when i see the game and countries it is not tabula rasa for me,but younger genrations? especially in some western countries are pretty much unaware of history or geography of other countries and often their own country because education is different.

For example probably many French people dont find themselves in Burgundy etc. We play medievel game and geography is like in that time but for young French or Spaniard it is boring ,he sees Aragon ,Castilla etc. and he sees himself like a Spain,Germans also .

If in game we have Serbia Made from 4 parts probably we wouldnt play .

I personaly stumbled on a game ,saw Serbia and there is Croatia and i was pulled to see what is happening because there was just war ended against Croats and I joined and stayed to fight them.

If we had Baskia or Corsica in game probably will be popular among that people,but it is hard to make people feel like 5 German or Spanish lands.

some of us can play as Fathimids for example no matter real life nationality but that is rare,I personaly couldnt be something other than what i am .

I play Antique empire where there is not Serbia and even there I can not feel fun as Carthaginan ,will never spend tiime there and pay premium..

so graphic and probably problem with identification stoped many players.

If this is a game with tanks and is in 1914 we wouldnt that problem because that is closer to most people.

many of us in Serbia if not all played e republic ,but many of e rep players didnt root here.

To make game interesting it must be done something with trade,economy and make it pretty simple. for people with lack of english.

As you can see I managed pretty well but when i look on caravans here it is not interesting or understandable ,i just understand and I am not stupid last time i was tested )

People wants power,so if someone can not be strongest knight maybe will find himself to be powerfull economicaly,,give one more aspect to the game.