Hi everybody! I'd like to suggest adding a lamellar or/and scale armour instead of plate and/or cuirass for eastern and southern nations. Why? To make a difference and for better realism. And it'd look very cool

Some pics of lamellar armours:
http://www.wojmir.pl/lamelkistal.htm

Another idea: How about using two armours at once? It was very popular in reality that knights were wearing both Mail and lamellar armour or plate/cuirass.

What do you think about it?

And btw. I'm wondering who made a doublebladed axe. It's ridiculous. Such a weapon were never used in battle by a regular troops.
And a interesting video about them http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hqtp08ZSAYE

Haha I couldn't agree more . I actually saw this video a couple of months ago but never really thought about it 'till now . And while we're ranting about the double bladed axe I must say something myself : Isn't a bit too BIG ( the image I mean ) to be wielded in one arm ? I mean I was ok with it when it was a two handed weapon but now it's a one handed weapon and it's size has not changed .

QUOTE:
Hi everybody! I'd like to suggest adding a lamellar or/and scale armour instead of plate and/or cuirass for eastern and southern nations. Why? To make a difference and for better realism.

Me agrees.

QUOTE:
And while we're ranting about the double bladed axe I must say something myself : Isn't a bit too BIG ( the image I mean ) to be wielded in one arm ? I mean I was ok with it when it was a two handed weapon but now it's a one handed weapon and it's size has not changed .

Me thinks his brother wants to get away from that deadly fate he faces, when Conrad and Argorian will next duel. But he's right, 'tis definitely a small flaw in the design.

To my knowledge, two bladed axes existed very well in the period. I'll do some research and come back, okay?!

I am willing to wait to see how this idea grows before giving my opinion.

There are a few problems which this idea hits:

1. It must be added only to certain Eastern factions, not to all of them, simply because not all of them used it.

2. If you wish to bring diversity within the armor system, than you need to do it for all the factions, not just for some of them, otherwise there might be discussions regarding the reasons for which some factions get new armor and why others don't.

3. Any new type of armor requires a drawing. An image is not enough and the drawing is pretty difficult to create, not to mention that it must have a specific format and the backround must be transparent.

4. Any new type of armor requires Hoern's consent, which he MIGHT give IF the suggestion is easy to implement. If its' not than you might as well forget it.

5. It must offer AT LEAST the same stats as the Plate simply because if the lamellar armor is worse than the Plate, than no knight will agree with the change. In the end why would anyone give up the Plate for a worse armor? So it will either have the same stats, either it will have other advantages or it will simply complete the existing number of armor , but that again might cause problems because the western knights might say why do we have more types of armor than they do.

Please consider these aspects.

Alar I wrote:

QUOTE:
I am willing to wait to see how this idea grows before giving my opinion.

There are a few problems which this idea hits:

1. It must be added only to certain Eastern factions, not to all of them, simply because not all of them used it.

2. If you wish to bring diversity within the armor system, than you need to do it for all the factions, not just for some of them, otherwise there might be discussions regarding the reasons for which some factions get new armor and why others don't.

3. Any new type of armor requires a drawing. An image is not enough and the drawing is pretty difficult to create, not to mention that it must have a specific format and the backround must be transparent.

4. Any new type of armor requires Hoern's consent, which he MIGHT give IF the suggestion is easy to implement. If its' not than you might as well forget it.

5. It must offer AT LEAST the same stats as the Plate simply because if the lamellar armor is worse than the Plate, than no knight will agree with the change. In the end why would anyone give up the Plate for a worse armor?;) So it will either have the same stats, either it will have other advantages or it will simply complete the existing number of armor;) , but that again might cause problems because the western knights might say why do we have more types of armor than they do.

Please consider these aspects.

Lamellar armour would replace plate/cuirass so eastern nations wouldn't have them any more. I'm not completely sure, but probably all of eastern nations used lamellar/scale armours.
Everything that is on east and south from SRI and Italy
I'm not sure what to do about Poland, because we were influenced both by eastern and western nations, so in history we were using both plates and lamellar armours.

Well, lamellar and scale armours were worse than plates, but were way lighter than mails.

Currently mail have stats
protection points : 4/5/6
weight : 100
hinderance : 6
durability : 130

I'm thinking that lamellars should have:
protection points : 4
weight : 65/75
hinderance : 7
durability : 120
or maybe scale armour as more expensive and bette(cuirass)r and lamellar as cheaper and worse(plate)
And way smaller cost of repairing than mail. Should be slightly cheaper than plate, lets say 450 silver. Its just a starting suggestion, and stats can be changed as a discussion will be going on


A can't say anything about graphics

In practical terms, no knight will agree with this suggestion. No knight will buy the lamellar armor and give up the plate or the cuirass. At worst they will travel to the west and buy those two types of armor.

This idea will not work. That is why I told you that it should be of comparable level with either the cuirass or the plate. Perhaps you should start with the stats of the cuirass or of the plate and add them to the lamellar armor and than change them a bit, in such a way in which to be different than the cuirass/plate, but not too weak...if you understand what I'm trying to say.

Alar I wrote:

QUOTE:
In practical terms, no knight will agree with this suggestion. No knight will buy the lamellar armor and give up the plate or the cuirass. At worst they will travel to the west and buy those two types of armor.

This idea will not work. That is why I told you that it should be of comparable level with either the cuirass or the plate. Perhaps you should start with the stats of the cuirass or of the plate and add them to the lamellar armor and than change them a bit, in such a way in which to be different than the cuirass/plate, but not too weak...if you understand what I'm trying to say.

To make things easier we can just make lamellar/scale armour exactly the same as plate/cuirass but with different image... It's not a perfect idea, but should fix few problems that you mentioned like players who don't want a lamellars.
If it'd be necessary, then every knight, no matter of faction could choose between plate and lamellar.

OR maybe make something like with weapons, every fraction have a unique weapon in group with other similar nations. But it'd require to make more armours.

Allen Brzeczyszczykiewicz wrote:

QUOTE:
To make things easier we can just make lamellar/scale armour exactly the same as plate/cuirass but with different image... It's not a perfect idea, but should fix few problems that you mentioned like players who don't want a lamellars.
If it'd be necessary, then every knight, no matter of faction could choose between plate and lamellar.

OR maybe make something like with weapons, every fraction have a unique weapon in group with other similar nations. But it'd require to make more armours.

This is acceptable in my opinion. I will search for a drawing of the lamelar armor and I will see if I can find someone to edit it in order to be implementable for the game. Than I will ask Hoern if the drawing is good and if it is, than I will submit the idea to the Council's vote.

Allen Brzeczyszczykiewicz wrote:

QUOTE:
Alar I wrote:

QUOTE:
I am willing to wait to see how this idea grows before giving my opinion.

There are a few problems which this idea hits:

1. It must be added only to certain Eastern factions, not to all of them, simply because not all of them used it.

2. If you wish to bring diversity within the armor system, than you need to do it for all the factions, not just for some of them, otherwise there might be discussions regarding the reasons for which some factions get new armor and why others don't.

3. Any new type of armor requires a drawing. An image is not enough and the drawing is pretty difficult to create, not to mention that it must have a specific format and the backround must be transparent.

4. Any new type of armor requires Hoern's consent, which he MIGHT give IF the suggestion is easy to implement. If its' not than you might as well forget it.

5. It must offer AT LEAST the same stats as the Plate simply because if the lamellar armor is worse than the Plate, than no knight will agree with the change. In the end why would anyone give up the Plate for a worse armor?;) So it will either have the same stats, either it will have other advantages or it will simply complete the existing number of armor;) , but that again might cause problems because the western knights might say why do we have more types of armor than they do.

Please consider these aspects.

Lamellar armour would replace plate/cuirass so eastern nations wouldn't have them any more. I'm not completely sure, but probably all of eastern nations used lamellar/scale armours.
Everything that is on east and south from SRI and Italy
I'm not sure what to do about Poland, because we were influenced both by eastern and western nations, so in history we were using both plates and lamellar armours.

Well, lamellar and scale armours were worse than plates, but were way lighter than mails.

Currently mail have stats
protection points : 4/5/6
weight : 100
hinderance : 6
durability : 130

I'm thinking that lamellars should have:
protection points : 4
weight : 65/75
hinderance : 7
durability : 120
or maybe scale armour as more expensive and bette(cuirass)r and lamellar as cheaper and worse(plate)
And way smaller cost of repairing than mail. Should be slightly cheaper than plate, lets say 450 silver. Its just a starting suggestion, and stats can be changed as a discussion will be going on :)


A can't say anything about graphics :)

I would say the entire proposal don't make any sense, because what is haubergeon other than a lamellar armor? You want to look cool and historically accurate? Use haubergeon.

Also two images for the same armor it doesn't make any sense to me, especially replace the cuirass with an image of already have armor, like haubergeon.

About national armors on the model of national weapons, that's a totally different idea and agree it would be much more interesting to have such variety in game.
The entire armor map should be withdraw, each national armor should be a +1 armor, not more from the actual stats with a slightly increased price.
Take the most used kind of armor of the nation, add +1 to one stats in the same way the national weapons was improved and here we are, the national armor

Actually, lamellar armor and haubergon are not the same. The haubergon is a chain armor, while the lamellar armor was something totally different with versions dating all the way back to antiquity, so they would not look the same.

Also, it wouldn't be two images for the same armor. It would be a single image, just that some eastern faction would have an image replaced with the other. In the end its just about that. Some western factions (like England for example) used a form of lamellar armor as well, but I can't seem to find images for it... One thing is clear, not all populations across Medieval Europe used that type of armor.

I too thought about national armors, but its not as simple as just adding a +1 to the stats. People will expect diversity when it comes to national armors, diversity in terms of aspect. And to be honest, I'd agree with em'. You can't have the same time of Plate like an African faction, just that you have a +1 to it. Plus, I have a feeling most factions would choose the Plate or the Cuirass as national armors, which again would not be a plus for diversity and originality.

As for the weapons...we both know how complicated that is and besides we still have other ideas pending and there is no time for that.