Knights-Honor-Forum
Welcome, Guest
Please Login or Register.    Lost Password?
Go to bottom Post Reply Favoured: 0
TOPIC: Serbian peace proposal
 
Ljudislav

Serbia
Council of Knights
Posts: 777
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Serbian peace proposal      28.09.2011 21:15:16 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
In hope of final peace in Christendom, Car Ljudislav proposed an unique Peace Agreement that is to be signed by most of the European Kingdoms.
QUOTE:
1. Concerning the shires: Status quo ante
1.1 Serbian province of Castagniccia is to be swapped with Papal States's province of Apulia
1.2 Serbian Empire will let the Croatia take the province of Apulia for period of 5 months for fiefdom moves.

2. Concerning finances: Roman Empire will pay Serbia 1000 silver in the name of Croatian pillage of the Serbian Empire; this to be accounted as a debt from Croatia to the Roman Empire.

3. Concerning diplomacy: A neutral catholic nation (Kingdom of Aragon) is to conduct an inquiry into the activities of the late criminal Ban Moroplovac, and in particular the persistent reports of necromancy that surrounded him wherever he went.

4. Concerning signers: For this peace treaty to be valid, all named signers must sign it (nations involved in war or in other ways).
4.1 Signers are (16), in alphabetical order: Aragon, Bavaria, Burgundy, Byzantium, Croatia, England, France, Hungary, Italy, Order of the Temple, Papal States, Pechenegs, Poland, Saxony, Serbia, Sicily.

5. Concerning the retreat: Immediately setting any captives free.
5.1 Withdrawing troops are granted passage on either side.

*Signed and Sealed*


Car of All Serbs and Magyars, Ban of Bosnia, Lord of Epirus and Thessaly
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Papikaze of Kyoto

Free
Posts: 0
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen
Birthdate:


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      28.09.2011 22:28:11 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
Dear Ljudislav, Car of Serbia,

we warmly welcome your proposal as it is the first time we can see that Serbia finally is willing to donate peace to this part of the world. I would be proud to become the first signee. Alas it is not up to us but to the nations, to whom some specific terms of this proposal aim - Croatia, the Papal States and the Roman Empire as well as Aragon.

However, may I propose to add a minimum peace endurance for all signees to this, your proposal.

With best regards

Papikaze of Kyoto
Foreign minister and Chancellor of the Pechenegs
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
masterpera

Hungary
Posts: 282
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      28.09.2011 22:50:37 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
QUOTE:
1. Concerning the shires: Status quo ante
1.1 Serbian province of Castagniccia is to be swapped with Papal States's province of Apulia
1.2 Serbian Empire will let the Croatia take the province of Apulia for period of 5 months for fiefdom moves.

2. Concerning finances: Roman Empire will pay Serbia 1000 silver in the name of Croatian pillage of the Serbian Empire; this to be accounted as a debt from Croatia to the Roman Empire.

3. Concerning diplomacy: A neutral catholic nation (Kingdom of Aragon) is to conduct an inquiry into the activities of the late criminal Ban Moroplovac, and in particular the persistent reports of necromancy that surrounded him wherever he went.

4. Concerning signers: For this peace treaty to be valid, all named signers must sign it (nations involved in war or in other ways).
4.1 Signers are (16), in alphabetical order: Aragon, Bavaria, Burgundy, Byzantium, Croatia, England, France, Hungary, Italy, Order of the Temple, Papal States, Pechenegs, Poland, Saxony, Serbia, Sicily.

5. Concerning the retreat: Immediately setting any captives free.
5.1 Withdrawing troops are granted passage on either side.



*Signed and Sealed*
Masterpera , King of Hungary


King of Hungary,Baron of St. Andrea
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Ban Matej Moreplovac

Free
Posts: 1490
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      28.09.2011 23:27:40 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
to all signers of the previous peace

The Roman Empire led by Emperor Smelgar has to pay "Croatian dept" I'm sorry, but Croatia has no dept to pay. All dept was paid in blood on the battlefields of war. And asking a true Empire that is good and honorable to pay such a high price for helping you is astonishing. You treat your allies like you treat your vassals.

Apulia will not become Serbian land. You will go back for your province of Castagniccia. Taking the Holy Seats lands is unacceptable for any Catholic and especially the pope as well.

The previous peace treaty that the Pechenegs have made is indeed the true peace treaty. Serbia is now trying to get more lands, more silver from their allies instead from us.

A White peace isn't this agreement, this is a tribute to Serbia for attacking a nation that has strong allies.

Croatia says NO to this treaty. If anyone signs this it just shows us that Serbia is getting rewarded for starting a long war and being "patted on the back" for being such good fellows and not accepting white peace.

So all who are aware of the current situation please do not sign this Rewarding peace to Serbia.

Croatia has made it clear for all signers about their opinion and stance

Respectfully

Ban Matej Moreplovac
Duke and Foreign Minister of Croatia

*signed and sealed*


Parata sedes tua!
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Maria Leszczynska

Poland
Posts: 994
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      28.09.2011 23:30:03 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
1. Concerning the shires: Status quo ante
1.1 Serbian province of Castagniccia is to be swapped with Papal States's province of Apulia
1.2 Serbian Empire will let the Croatia take the province of Apulia for period of 5 months for fiefdom moves.

2. Concerning finances: Roman Empire will pay Serbia 1000 silver in the name of Croatian pillage of the Serbian Empire; this to be accounted as a debt from Croatia to the Roman Empire.

3. Concerning diplomacy: A neutral catholic nation (Kingdom of Aragon) is to conduct an inquiry into the activities of the late criminal Ban Moroplovac, and in particular the persistent reports of necromancy that surrounded him wherever he went.

4. Concerning signers: For this peace treaty to be valid, all named signers must sign it (nations involved in war or in other ways).
4.1 Signers are (16), in alphabetical order: Aragon, Bavaria, Burgundy, Byzantium, Croatia, England, France, Hungary, Italy, Order of the Temple, Papal States, Pechenegs, Poland, Saxony, Serbia, Sicily.

5. Concerning the retreat: Immediately setting any captives free.
5.1 Withdrawing troops are granted passage on either side.


*Signed and Sealed*
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Myrkira

Bavaria
Posts: 368
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      29.09.2011 00:06:18 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
 
Last Edit: 2011/09/29 00:08 By Myrkira. Reason: serious grammar mistakes
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Deaglan Artavasdus

Byzantium
TECH-MOD
Posts: 2380
graphgraph
User Online Now Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      29.09.2011 04:34:52 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:

His Eminence, Ban Matej Moreplovac, Foreign Minister of Croatia

Your Eminence

The Roman Empire seeks to bring peace, and is quite willing to undertake the measures outlined. Indeed, the clause you refer to arose at my instigation. Furthermore, this clause, and indeed a draft of the whole proposal, was supplied by myself to His Majesty King Borna (and also to the Papal States Foreign Minister) for their consideration. Whilst His Majesty can and should speak for himself, my recollection of our discussion was that he was principally concerned to obtain a means to evacuate fiefdoms from Apulia, and had no significant objections to any other part of the proposal. I note that a means for the orderly evacuation of Apulia has now been provided.

I trust this clarifies the situation to your satisfaction.

I have the Honour to Remain, Sir, Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant
Smelgar, Protosebastos of the Romans

 
Last Edit: 2011/09/29 04:36 By Deaglan Artavasdus. Reason: typos
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Ban Matej Moreplovac

Free
Posts: 1490
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      29.09.2011 09:18:12 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
To
Smelgar, Protosebastos of the Romans

We Croatians indeed want peace. But this is just absurd. You their ally who wants peace but your bloodthirsty allies don't have made a huge step towards peace with the Pecheneg's peace proposal. And your allies are treating you like some vassal saying "The Romans must pay Croatian dept". First of all there is no Croatian dept, they pillaged our lands we pillaged theirs, Second why should you pay the price and say not Hungary or Sicily?

This just their way on spitting on your good name and your good intentions. King Borna will say his mind as well. But I think he'll agree with me.

Swapping territory is out of the question. They don't have claims on Apulia because that's Sacred and Holy lands of the Pope. Only the Pope can decide on that. But I protest against this but the final word goes with Pope Urban III.

Think of this like, Fatimids swapping territory, Jerusalem for let's say, Benghazi (518). It's totally out of the question and stupid.

So Emperor of the East, don't let them treat you like a vassal because you have done nothing wrong. In my eyes if you do sign this peace and pay 1000 silvercoins to Serbia. I will feel that you have signed a treaty that you become a vassal to Serbia and not to mention you encourage them to start wars and not end the properly. He Didn't mention Italian shires or Burgundian ones even The Pope's lands they pillaged. No, they just watch on themselves and think of themselves.

How many peasants must die for you to understand that they attacked first, pillaged most of our lands and our allies lands. And then we went on a counter-offensive and we pillaged their lands.

I call for White Peace, no swapping, no paying and most importantly NO rewards to Serbia for attacking a small but proud nation

Respectfully

Ban Matej Moreplovac
Duke and Foreign minister of Croatia

*signed and sealed*


Parata sedes tua!
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Abel Syarco

Free
Posts: 0
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen
Birthdate:


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      29.09.2011 09:54:16 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
To Ljudislav, the excommunicated Car of Serbia
To Maria the Mad, excommunicated female King of Poland,

It is interesting to see as how Serbia is now forcing a treaty upon other nations with the help of warmongering nation Poland. It's a shameful fact that the honourable days of my old friend King Jjah Varilis, the Warmonger tamer, defender of faith, have ended in Poland.
It is, in the name of the Lord, that the Papal States is sick and tired of this Balkan conflict. A conflict kept going by Serbia and now Serbia demands silver and land for this. For the fact that Christianity itself has been put in danger for earthly gains.
It is not completely to my understanding that a nation that shows to be capable of honourable deeds suchs as, liberating the Holy city of Jerusalem from the Muslims and faithless, can be so far of the Christian way in their other actions.

About the Serbian peace proposal, I must be honest here, I miss the practical use for Serbia to hold either Apulia or Castagniccia. These are shrines where Serbia should have no doing at all. Wouldn't it be better for Christianity if Serbia would try to populate their Principality in the Holy land? To defend the Holy city of Jerusalem from any Muslim attacks.
If Serbia can provide the Papal States with an excellent reason why it would need either shrine, I am sure reasoning can provide a good solution. Until such a reason is given, I am afraid I can't allow the excommunicated Serbian King on the Pope's land. And even if such a reason is given, I wish to take up a clausule that the Papal States has the option to buy Serbia out, if the Papal States grows enough to hold all their rightful shrines, which includes Apulia.
Also the lack of a white peace, as this is, seems arguable, but I believe the Polish are willing to refund the Croatians for all their losses in this long and bloody war, losses suffered because of attacks by Serbia. What an honourable deed would that be from an excommunicated female King. Surely making it worth reconsidering the punishment laid upon It (Him/Her, I am confused by the female King title to be honest) and it's followers.

Concerning diplomacy: I receive this part as a cheerful note to brighten up this peace proposal. I am sure an honourable neutral nation as Aragon will be a great choice for such a inquiry. I hereby promise to do anything in my power to help the inquiry to be swift and correct. The truth and honour must prevail.

Concerning the signers and retreat, I do not care for such puny points. Papal States can be expected from the keep word, as they already signed the other peace treaty, which has similar points involved. I understand this will be received by some sceptical minds as Papal States has made a mistake in wrongfully inquiring about the plans of two Serbians knights in Rome. A mistake that was restored within a day or two. Both travelling knights have been helped to a ship afterwards and have been received by the chivalrous guidelines of guests.

I hope to soon hear a, reasonable and calm, answer.
I have also taken the liberty to rewrite a part of the proposed treaty. See it as a counter-offer for a truely white peace.

Christo et Ecclesiae,

Abel Syarco
Foreign Minister of Papal States


QUOTE:
1. Concerning the shires: Status quo ante
1.1 Serbian province of Castagniccia is to be swapped with Papal States's province of Apulia
1.2 Serbian Empire will let the Croatia take the province of Apulia for period of [u[6[/u] months for fiefdom moves.
1.3 Papal States can, if they have the manpower to put a count in Apulia, buy Serbia out of Apulia for 450 silver (the cost of roads, farming and animal husbandry) at any time.

2. Concerning finances:
2.1 Roman Empire will pay Serbia 1000 silver in the name of Croatian pillage of the Serbian Empire; this to be accounted as a debt from Croatia to the Roman Empire.
2.2 The Polish Kingdom will pay Croatia 1000 silver in the name of Serbian pillage of the Croatian Empire; this to be accounted as a debt from Serbia to the Polish Empire. (Remind yourself that the Polish Kingdom can also choose to nullify the Serbian debt to them.)

3. Concerning diplomacy:
3.1A neutral catholic nation (Kingdom of Aragon) is to conduct an inquiry into the activities of the late criminal Ban Moroplovac, and in particular the persistent reports of necromancy that surrounded him wherever he went.
3.2 The Papal States will bring the honourable case of the Serbian Empire and the Polish Kingdom to Pope Urban III, as will they provide support in the case to revoke the excommunication of knights out of both kingdoms.

4. Concerning signers: For this peace treaty to be valid, all named signers must sign it (nations involved in war or in other ways).
4.1 Signers are (16), in alphabetical order: Aragon, Bavaria, Burgundy, Byzantium, Croatia, England, France, Hungary, Italy, Order of the Temple, Papal States, Pechenegs, Poland, Saxony, Serbia, Sicily.

5. Concerning the retreat: Immediately setting any captives free.
5.1 Withdrawing troops are granted passage on either side.


Now the Serbian peace offer is a true offer of white peace. A truly honourable idea to restore peace to Christianity, Abel thought to himself, while he started to rewrite the letter and the counter offer he made for all other involved nations.
 
Last Edit: 2011/09/29 10:34 By . Reason: OOC removed
The administrator has disabled public write access.
 
Ljudislav

Serbia
Council of Knights
Posts: 777
graphgraph
User Offline Klicke hier, um diesem Benutzer eine private Nachricht zu schicken Klicke hier, um das Profil des Spielers zu sehen


to the moderators

Re:Serbian peace proposal      29.09.2011 10:40:22 --- 7 Months, 3 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:

To Papikaze of Kyoto,
Foreign minister and Chancellor of the Pechenegs

First, let me inform you that I've attached all the answers I got from some of the signers. Second, where were you good sir when we signed all those peace treaties with the same sides and it always comes back to us. Always have we showed mercy and good will and always they come to our lands with the same coalition.

Again we have offered the proper and merciful peace agreement, and see the answer of the Croatian and Papal States "chancellors".

In hope of seeing the bigger picture, I greet you
Car Ljudislav

*Signed and Sealed*

QUOTE:

To Abel Syarco,
Foreign Minister of Papal States

Your Pope, good sir, can't excommunicate Orthodox Christians as they are not under his guidance. Thus calling me and my subjects excommunicated doesn't mean anything than a pitiful try to be rude to us.

We are not forcing anything as we just listened to our allies and proposed a proper white peace agreement. We knew the result of it, like we see it with the responses coming to our address.

Serbian Empire retreating from the rightful campaign in self-defense ransacked four Croatian shires and never entered them again. Trying to bring your forces from our lands back to Appenin peninsula, pillaged two more shires that was only guarded by Croatian forces. Good sir, how many of Serbian Empire shires had Croatians pillaged? And how many times? The 1000 silver-coins for rebuilding our lands is a rightful claim.

About Apulia and Castagniccia, may I remind you that in the agreement with belated former queen of Ireland Molly and the present King of Aragon Charles Hart, we annexed unlawful Corsican shire of Castagniccia. The notorious Sicilian pirates (in those days) had attacked us with no war declaration what so ever, and after defeating them the new King of Sicily Bisha had recognized our claims of that island.
Apulia is an orthodox populated shire, settled by the Romans from the Eastern Roman Empire of Byzantium, thus our claims to offer them an Orthodox government as they desire is more than legit.

Thus, in hope you and your allies will sign this more than generous peace proposal, I inform you that I wont participate in any other changes you might have as that would only unbalance its purpose.

Car Ljudislav

*Signed and Sealed*


Car of All Serbs and Magyars, Ban of Bosnia, Lord of Epirus and Thessaly
 
The administrator has disabled public write access.
Go to top Post Reply
Powered by FireBoardget the latest posts directly to your desktop
(+) memo:

Premium-Players only.


Board
Help
Imprint
ToU
Partner
registered: 22153
active:         742
online:         35
Tavern