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TOPIC: croatian and saxon breaking of peace
 
Gruffudd

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Re:croatian and saxon breaking of peace      25.10.2011 23:55:04 --- 7 Months ago  
QUOTE:

To Dorenn, shameless girl of Khazars,

When I require an opinion from infamous tricksters and liars, I ask for it.
Your wet dreams of wild Saxon hordes interfere in your foreign affairs. I hardly believe that you are that ignorant of logic, it is your hatred of the Poles and lust for the Saxon dogs that makes you lose respect in every sane corner of the Earth.
Spare me of your "interpretations", your reaction about barbarian breaches of treaty comes too late. When you wish to write me a new letter, you better find the courage to deliver it yourself, otherwise do not bother.
Honorless girl, I hope your lying words do not reach ears of fools, someone might actually believe you. Your words are wind, meaningless and shifting.

~Gruffudd


Gruffudd (1014- ) - Despot of Greece, Serbian Foreign Affairs Minister, Grand Master of the Order of St. Mathew
 
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Dorenn de Almhuin

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Re:croatian and saxon breaking of peace      26.10.2011 00:08:21 --- 7 Months ago  
QUOTE:
To Oscar von Reuenthal, Chancellor of Saxony,

On the account of Javorniky you are right, this was a violation of the treaty, however Brno was a free shire, where the opponents and some other warring parties met in the open. Attacking each other on neutral ground does not qualify as a casus belli under the First Balcan Peace Treaty.

Regards

Dorenn de Almhuin, Khagani of Khazar


QUOTE:

To King Maria Leszczynska of Poland:

As outlined to Gruffud, Prince of Serbia, who made the same excuse: It does not matter, who owned which shire when. Under the First Balcan Peace Treaty, peace is clearly breached, if you attack any of the signees shires. If that did not qualify as a casus belli, no treaty would ever make sense, since it will be impossible to break peace under any other conditions.

Kind Regards

Dorenn de Almhuin, Khagani of Khazar


QUOTE:
To Gruffudd, ignoramous barking Dog,

I don't care for your language and if you like, I can meet you for a big duel and I shall teach you Mores.

However, as it excapes an ignoramous mind like yours, to do proper interpretations, I would recommend to do a few semestres in philosophy in a monastery. May be that way you will get a decent education. It is not your call to interpret the treaty. It will have to be done by each signee. And we shall see, what the others say. Prepare to be judged.

Don't bother to answer, the only answer you can give: Meet me for a big duel
 
Last Edit: 2011/10/26 00:10 By Dorenn de Almhuin.
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Deaglan Artavasdus

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Re:croatian and saxon breaking of peace      26.10.2011 10:05:46 --- 7 Months ago  
QUOTE:

His Grace Denis de Fecamp, Grand Duke of Burgundy
His Majesty Rhodry, King of Italy
His Majesty Borna, King of Croatia
His Majesty Black Raven, King of France
His Eminence Abel Syarco, Cardinal Camalengo
His Eminence Hyrykan de Silcross, Grandamaster of the Order of the Temple
His Eminence Papikaze of Kyoto, Archchancellor of the Pechenegs
Her Majesty Dorenn de Almhuin, Khagani of the Khazars

In successfully attacking Thiess, a shire held by Hungary prior to the recent Balkan war, Saxony has committed a clear and substantive breach of the peace brought by the First (Pecheneg) Balkan Peace treaty, which we have all signed. Accordingly, I expect all other signatory nations to declare war on Saxony.

Likewise, the Finns successfully attacked Tauern, a shire hled by Bavaria prior to the recent Balkan war, and thus the Finns have also committed a clear and substantive breach of the peace brought by the First (Pecheneg) Balkan Peace treaty, which we have all signed. Accordingly, I expect all other signatory nations to declare war on the Finns.

There is some question whether Croatia has also breached the peace. I understand that there is a possibility that Croatian armies involved in this action may simply have followed the Saxon army, without being made aware of the Saxon intention. If this is the case, then Croatia should make that without delay. If no such clarification is forthcoming, the remaining signatory nations should also declare war on Croatia.

There is some confusion regarding certain other actions, with the suggestion that they also breached the peace.

The Poles and Serbians recently undertook an action to recover a Polish shire (Javorníky) from Saxon control. This action is permitted by the Treaty and there several precedent examples where similar actions have occurred. Most obviously, Serbia was permitted to recover her shires, despite them in some cases held by Croatian peasants. Those actions were (correctly) permitted without being considered breaches of the peace; likewise the Serbian/Polish action against Javorníky. Furthermore, even in the absence of such precedents, any interpretation that denies rights to recover previously held shires is clearly incorrect. To see why this is so, consider the possibility that a signatory nation X attacked an uninvolved third part, such as Antioch. If no nation is permitted to attack shires held by X under any circumstances, then Antioch (who are completely innocent in the present wars) would not be permitted to respond, and would instead have to lie down and accept the loss of all of its shires. No reasonable person would accept such a situation.

Previously, the Papal States imprisoned some Serbian knights during the cease fire period. Whilst this might be regarding as a technical breach of the peace, the Knights were released promptly and all concerned adopted the wise position of not regarding this as a breach, in order to further to cause of peace, which soon followed via the Treaty of Sixteen Nations. As such, this putative breach of the peace is a past matter that has no relevance to the current situation.

And before that, a small Hungarian army launched a failed attack on a Croatian shire. First of all, this attack was launched contemporaneously with the start of the cease fire period, so it is not clear that the cease fire was in effect at the relevant time. Secondly, this attack had no prospect of success, and might thus be excused as the actions of an incompetent general who lost his way in the fog. Finally, as with the incident in the Papal States, it was wisely decided to ignore this putative breach (since no harm had been done) in order to further the cause of peace. As such, this putative breach of the peace is a past matter that has no relevance to the current situation.

I have the Honour to Remain, Your Most Humble and Obedient Servant
Smelgar, Protosebastos of the Romans

 
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Ban Matej Moreplovac

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Re:croatian and saxon breaking of peace      26.10.2011 10:38:03 --- 7 Months ago  
QUOTE:
To
Smelgar, Protosebastos of the Romans
and all concerned in this conflict with Poland and such.

I really don't have much time so I'll make this short. I have two points to make.

Finns:

are not part of the treaty proposed by the Pechenegs. Thus the treaty does not apply to them. This is a personal conflict between Bavaria and the Finns. The thirteen signers are not to be bothered with the outer politics or lack of it by Bavarians. Smelgar, if you wish to help the Bavarians then be my guest.

Concerning the attack on Hungary:

I'm appaled to where the Saxons have led us. I was confident they knew the terrain and from where to strike Poland. I have now found to my horor that they have not mapped this region of the Europe well. Had they asked us for our map it wouldn't have been a problem.

My personal opinion is. Not to attack Poland through innocent peasant lives. Or even better, not attack Poland at all. My father might have supported this war with our northern neighbour, but I certainly don't. I hereby publicly declare, that the Moreplovac family and it's soldiers will not fight against Poland anymore.

Borna's and the other's bloodthirsty ambitions are not what God would want on this place. Do we really need to be killing our fellow brothers in faith?

Respectfully

Ban Matej Moreplovac
Duke and Foreign minister of Croatia

*signed and sealed*



Parata sedes tua!
 
Last Edit: 2011/10/26 10:39 By Ban Matej Moreplovac.
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Dorenn de Almhuin

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Re:croatian and saxon breaking of peace      26.10.2011 12:49:44 --- 6 Months, 4 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
Dear Smelgar,
Protosebastos of the Romans,
Finland was never part of the treaty, so it is a different conflict (otherwise all signer should have declared war on Poland after signature back then)

About Serbia and Hungary: In you above mentioned example, Antioch should recover her own shires. Also Serbia and Hungary could have very well defended Polish shires. By marching with Poland and fighting alongside Poland they have broken the peace.

Suppose Saxony had expanded since the signing of the contract. According to your interpretation, any signer of that treaty could now happily destroy that shire without impunity. Such limitations of expansion was not the intention of the treaty. The intention was peace. Peace is broken, if you attack an opponents shire. The contract does not specify situations, which shires are to be exempted from triggering a casus belli.

Serbia recovering her shires after the previous conflict along with other nations was specifically covered by the peace treaty, this is not.

I understand that this matter is a difficult one for the Leader of the Roman Empire as Serbia is allied to the Roman Empire. To get out of this messy situation, I would simply recommend to speed up the peace efforts undertaken by the Rostov King and mash it into a global peace treaty with all parties involved since the perpetrators are involved in a war on both side, whether actively or as defenders.

With Kindest Regards

Dorenn de Almhuin, Khagani of Khazar
 
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Dorenn de Almhuin

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Serbian Army south of Khazar Lands      04.11.2011 11:15:56 --- 6 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
Dear Car Ljudislav,

our scouts have spotted a Serbian army south of our castle. As we were not expecting you, we wonder, what your intentions are.

I have advised to put the diplomacy to friendly so that there are no accidents in case you want to cross over our country. However if you plan to do so, we would like to see a formal request.

After all, we do not want to cause another international war as the Balcan Peace Treaty is still active and a lot of nations are bound to it.

In any event please be careful.

On the other side you have declared that part of the Holy Land is now separated from Serbia. I still hold that part of this obscure order responsible to keep the peace from the above mentioned peace as these knights where part of Serbia when the Treaty was signed.

Otherwise, any peace treaty would be useless as you just declare some people being part of some obscure order or sectarian people and let them break treaties at will. I am suspicious that Prince Gruffud is among those in that army as he has been sending me angry diplomatic notes before. Any attack on Khazar core country will not go unpunished and will trigger the treaty, I shall personally see to it.

To make it clear: The army south of Astrachan clearly shows the flags of Serbia.

A copy of this note will go to all signers of the first Balcan Peace Treaty.

Kind Regards

Dorenn de Almhuin, Khagani of Khazar
 
Last Edit: 2011/11/04 11:18 By Dorenn de Almhuin.
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Ljudislav

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Re:Serbian Army south of Khazar Lands      04.11.2011 16:16:26 --- 6 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:

To Dorren de Almhuin, Khagani of Khazar

Dear Dorren, you are addressing the wrong person as the Order doesn't answer to me thus I have no power to call them back. The persons you are to address are Patriarch of Alexandria and Grand Master Gruffudd.
My power is only to disband the Order if I see they went of the ways of our lord.

The flags of Serbian Empire that you see are of our knights serving the Order. You can see them in Byzantium too, but I have no power of Byzantium now do I?
Ten knights of the Order and their three shires in the Holy Lands are your problem, not mine.

But as I heard, they went to investigate rumors of your heretic christian ways. If they are false, then you have nothing to worry about now do you?

Thus I suggest for you to contact the right person for it, and not me as I have more important things to do beside worry about you realm.

Car Ljudislav


Car of All Serbs and Magyars, Ban of Bosnia, Lord of Epirus and Thessaly
 
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Dorenn de Almhuin

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Re:Serbian Army south of Khazar Lands      04.11.2011 16:57:04 --- 6 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
Dear Ljudislav,

as outlined before: Just to decline responsibilty for actions of your knights and hiding behind an obscure order will not work as the treaty's signature is that of Serbia and the knights who are coming are those of Serbia.

I just kindly remind you of the dire consequences as the signers cannot care about this order. If you can't control your troops, well that does not save you from retaliation.

As said before: My peasants and knights will only fight, if attacked and I do not accept that obscure order of whatever.

Regards

Dorenn de Almhuin, Khagani of Khazar
 
Last Edit: 2011/11/04 17:02 By Dorenn de Almhuin.
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Ljudislav

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Re:Serbian Army south of Khazar Lands      04.11.2011 18:41:09 --- 6 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:

Dear Dorenn de Almhuin,

I understand your fear of the truth the Order may come across to, but believe me as I say that they govern them selves in legitimate agreement signed by me as their sovereign. The Order is to simply put it, a state in a state.
In the last two big wars, they didn't involve them selves as its not their businesses but the Holy Land.

Do I have to remind you when you attacked the same Holy Land with the Muslim warlords? As I understood Grand Master Gruffudd, one of their first main goals were to investigate heretic realms in east who attacked Jerusalem.

But as my step-daughter, and you been frighten as is. I promise you, that I will send a formal letter to the Order asking for mercy and forgiveness if they do find evidence of heresy.

Car Ljudislav


Car of All Serbs and Magyars, Ban of Bosnia, Lord of Epirus and Thessaly
 
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Dorenn de Almhuin

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Re:Serbian Army south of Khazar Lands      04.11.2011 22:34:35 --- 6 Months, 2 Weeks ago  
QUOTE:
Dear Ljudislav,

the order is Serbia and vice versa. They use Serbian flags. If they are planned as an independent entity, these knights should leave Serbia and create their own castle. Lots of them are orphaned near by the holy land.

It would have been nice if your army had used the normal diplomacy channels and announced its appearance so we could have warned the peasants as they can be frightened at times. As long as your soldiers behave orderly they shall be guests on our lands.

We have taken this lands from barbarian pagans and have converted all inhabitants to be fellow christians. Since it is sometimes difficult to get rid of old habits you might see one or the other old ceremony. But as the church is always clever to embrace these things we had little trouble to convince them that the Lord is the only God.

As it is at times quite difficult to find good missionaries, any of these professionals that you can spare are welcome to do some work here. Do you want to make a schedule so I can show your knights the new realms of Khazar?

Kind Regards

Dorenn de Almhuin, Khagani of Khazar.
.
 
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